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	<title>Comments on: The Tower of Babel and the Birth of Nationhood</title>
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	<link>http://danielgordis.org/2010/06/21/the-tower-of-babel-and-the-birth-of-nationhood/</link>
	<description>Daniel Gordis, whom  Alan Dershowitz has called “one of Israel’s most insightful observers,” writes and lectures throughout the world on Israeli society and the challenges facing the Jewish state.  He blogs at www.danielgordis.org.”  </description>
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		<title>By: Moishe (Thomas) Goldstein Toronto Canada</title>
		<link>http://danielgordis.org/2010/06/21/the-tower-of-babel-and-the-birth-of-nationhood/comment-page-1/#comment-2446</link>
		<dc:creator>Moishe (Thomas) Goldstein Toronto Canada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jun 2010 15:45:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://danielgordis.org/?p=1647#comment-2446</guid>
		<description>Thank you very much, Daniel for this fascinating article - for me, the primary understanding of the Torah text.

To all Torah readers, I strongly recommend &quot;Moses As Political Leader&quot; by Aaron Wildavsky, an outstanding primer on the political thought of/inherent in the Torah. Every Torah LiSh&#039;ma reader will have his/her eyes opened by Wildavsky&#039;s original findings on the extent of Moshe Rabbeinu&#039;s world view. Wildavsky&#039;s analysis is breathtaking. Your Torah understanding will rise to an entirely new level.    

Enjoy a wonderful week.

Moishe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you very much, Daniel for this fascinating article &#8211; for me, the primary understanding of the Torah text.</p>
<p>To all Torah readers, I strongly recommend &#8220;Moses As Political Leader&#8221; by Aaron Wildavsky, an outstanding primer on the political thought of/inherent in the Torah. Every Torah LiSh&#8217;ma reader will have his/her eyes opened by Wildavsky&#8217;s original findings on the extent of Moshe Rabbeinu&#8217;s world view. Wildavsky&#8217;s analysis is breathtaking. Your Torah understanding will rise to an entirely new level.    </p>
<p>Enjoy a wonderful week.</p>
<p>Moishe</p>
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		<title>By: Joo-LiZ</title>
		<link>http://danielgordis.org/2010/06/21/the-tower-of-babel-and-the-birth-of-nationhood/comment-page-1/#comment-2413</link>
		<dc:creator>Joo-LiZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jun 2010 02:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://danielgordis.org/?p=1647#comment-2413</guid>
		<description>Truly fascinating piece, Daniel.

I&#039;d be very interested to see you follow up on the implications of these ideas.

For instance, WHY is it beneficial for humankind to remain diverse and not unite? Is it, perhaps, to increase the chances of at least one or two nations &quot;getting it right&quot;, so to speak? So that if one society goes down the wrong path, there are others to head down the right path? The implications of either of these explanations are wide-ranging.

You set out to propose a particular interpretation of a biblical passage. I think you&#039;ve masterfully succeeded in doing so.

What I&#039;m interested in, however, is an analysis of how this interpretation might be applied to our world today and how this biblical &quot;lesson&quot; could help modern humanity moving forward.

On the one hand, examples of international bodies gone awry abound, the EU and UN stand as ready examples which can be picked apart from many directions. On the other hand, there are numerous counter-examples that can be called up, revealing the benefits of globalization to the developing world.

Are the examples of failure in attempts to unify disparate nation-states into singular governing bodies significant enough to suggest not only that it can not be done, but that it should not be done?

Is there an important distinction between a liberal democracy based on a constitution and civil structure alone (e.g. the US), compared to another democracy that is a nation-state with an ethnic component (e.g. Israel)? If so what are the implications of this distinction? If not, then it would seem that this does nothing to dispel some of the arguments made against the concept of Israel as a Jewish State.   

In other words, as a work of biblical interpretation you have done a phenomenal job... as an attempt to make this interpretation politically relevant to our world, there needs to be much more said, and I would love to see it.

Thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Truly fascinating piece, Daniel.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be very interested to see you follow up on the implications of these ideas.</p>
<p>For instance, WHY is it beneficial for humankind to remain diverse and not unite? Is it, perhaps, to increase the chances of at least one or two nations &#8220;getting it right&#8221;, so to speak? So that if one society goes down the wrong path, there are others to head down the right path? The implications of either of these explanations are wide-ranging.</p>
<p>You set out to propose a particular interpretation of a biblical passage. I think you&#8217;ve masterfully succeeded in doing so.</p>
<p>What I&#8217;m interested in, however, is an analysis of how this interpretation might be applied to our world today and how this biblical &#8220;lesson&#8221; could help modern humanity moving forward.</p>
<p>On the one hand, examples of international bodies gone awry abound, the EU and UN stand as ready examples which can be picked apart from many directions. On the other hand, there are numerous counter-examples that can be called up, revealing the benefits of globalization to the developing world.</p>
<p>Are the examples of failure in attempts to unify disparate nation-states into singular governing bodies significant enough to suggest not only that it can not be done, but that it should not be done?</p>
<p>Is there an important distinction between a liberal democracy based on a constitution and civil structure alone (e.g. the US), compared to another democracy that is a nation-state with an ethnic component (e.g. Israel)? If so what are the implications of this distinction? If not, then it would seem that this does nothing to dispel some of the arguments made against the concept of Israel as a Jewish State.   </p>
<p>In other words, as a work of biblical interpretation you have done a phenomenal job&#8230; as an attempt to make this interpretation politically relevant to our world, there needs to be much more said, and I would love to see it.</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://danielgordis.org/2010/06/21/the-tower-of-babel-and-the-birth-of-nationhood/comment-page-1/#comment-2323</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 04:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://danielgordis.org/?p=1647#comment-2323</guid>
		<description>I read your article with interest because the Tower of Babel story has fascinated me since I was a teenager, when I first encountered cultural anthropology and tried to read it into the Bible. I enjoyed all of your metaphors and their implications, almost as though you were describing the Biblical Industrial Revolution (Bricks!)...and finally Globalization: the Tower of Babel of the 21st century. And, of course, one cannot help but recall 9/11 in this context.
Your concusion that the Jewish state is the continuation of G-d&#039;s plan for humankind is fine with me, but it still doesn&#039;t justify the oppression of the Palestinian Arabs or the continued often brutal and illegal occupation and destruction of their land and homes. We seem to be seeing a &quot;Nimrodization&quot; of Israel, and that doesn&#039;t bode well for the future of the Jewish State in its present form.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read your article with interest because the Tower of Babel story has fascinated me since I was a teenager, when I first encountered cultural anthropology and tried to read it into the Bible. I enjoyed all of your metaphors and their implications, almost as though you were describing the Biblical Industrial Revolution (Bricks!)&#8230;and finally Globalization: the Tower of Babel of the 21st century. And, of course, one cannot help but recall 9/11 in this context.<br />
Your concusion that the Jewish state is the continuation of G-d&#8217;s plan for humankind is fine with me, but it still doesn&#8217;t justify the oppression of the Palestinian Arabs or the continued often brutal and illegal occupation and destruction of their land and homes. We seem to be seeing a &#8220;Nimrodization&#8221; of Israel, and that doesn&#8217;t bode well for the future of the Jewish State in its present form.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike ~</title>
		<link>http://danielgordis.org/2010/06/21/the-tower-of-babel-and-the-birth-of-nationhood/comment-page-1/#comment-2322</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike ~</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 03:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://danielgordis.org/?p=1647#comment-2322</guid>
		<description>Although I don&#039;t consider myself a &quot;layman&quot; in the context respondent Adina used it, in reading your excellent essay, I came to the same conclusions she did.  While the Jews as a distinct nation have a certain destiny in their historical land, may the Arabs &#039;not&#039; exploit your high-profile position and this essay to their base political ends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although I don&#8217;t consider myself a &#8220;layman&#8221; in the context respondent Adina used it, in reading your excellent essay, I came to the same conclusions she did.  While the Jews as a distinct nation have a certain destiny in their historical land, may the Arabs &#8216;not&#8217; exploit your high-profile position and this essay to their base political ends.</p>
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		<title>By: Donna Paschal</title>
		<link>http://danielgordis.org/2010/06/21/the-tower-of-babel-and-the-birth-of-nationhood/comment-page-1/#comment-2316</link>
		<dc:creator>Donna Paschal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 23:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://danielgordis.org/?p=1647#comment-2316</guid>
		<description>Dear Daniel...I too am a &#039;layman&#039;...however, I followed every word you wrote with understanding and agreement (well almost).   How could anyone fear that your words would incite retaliation against Israel?  Israel&#039;s enemies need no incitement against her.  To allow fear to muzzle a teacher would be a far greater risk to Israel than to fear making her enemies mad...again.   May I also confess that I am simple enough to believe that the stories of Adam and the Tower of Babel and even old Nimrod are factual and not myths at all.  How does one pick and choose in the bible what is imaginary and what is reality?  It&#039;s far easier for my pea brain to just plumb decide to believe it all..hook, line and sinker.   At any rate..I loved what you wrote.  Be strong and of good courage.  G-d is with Israel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Daniel&#8230;I too am a &#8216;layman&#8217;&#8230;however, I followed every word you wrote with understanding and agreement (well almost).   How could anyone fear that your words would incite retaliation against Israel?  Israel&#8217;s enemies need no incitement against her.  To allow fear to muzzle a teacher would be a far greater risk to Israel than to fear making her enemies mad&#8230;again.   May I also confess that I am simple enough to believe that the stories of Adam and the Tower of Babel and even old Nimrod are factual and not myths at all.  How does one pick and choose in the bible what is imaginary and what is reality?  It&#8217;s far easier for my pea brain to just plumb decide to believe it all..hook, line and sinker.   At any rate..I loved what you wrote.  Be strong and of good courage.  G-d is with Israel.</p>
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		<title>By: Adina</title>
		<link>http://danielgordis.org/2010/06/21/the-tower-of-babel-and-the-birth-of-nationhood/comment-page-1/#comment-2314</link>
		<dc:creator>Adina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 21:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://danielgordis.org/?p=1647#comment-2314</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Daniel,</p>
<p>You are a true scholar, and I’m a layman.  Your intelligence and ability to analyze facts is impressive.  Your willingness to research and putting it all together is a gift.  But again, I’m a layman.  Most people like me can hardly follow one page of massive intellectual verbiage, not to mention, the elevated speech.  I did my best to understand all that you wrote.  I tried to follow your leads, only to get to the last sentence of the article:  “And it is that same story we continue to tell today, a reminder to peoples everywhere to reclaim what is rightfully theirs.”</p>
<p>So I read parts of it again, and I managed to understand that you believe that “When the Zionist movement set out to found a Jewish state, it was “simply following the dictates of Hebraic political thought”, because Abraham was told:  “Go forth from your native land and seek your own territory.”</p>
<p>Daniel, what was the purpose of writing “The Tower of Babel and the Birth of Nationhood?”  I want to make sure you didn’t open the door to people who are confused in their thinking…</p>
<p>You see, layman people like me are not experts in almost any field.  When we read an article, we want to understand the objective of the article, and get supporting facts, so that we could strengthen our belief.  Are you sure you’ve accomplished that?</p>
<p>Your target audience may be scholars and academic intellectuals, but for us, the simple people, you left us worried.  Each and every one of us takes your words and put it in today’s context.  So what was I left with?  </p>
<p>1.	This is a reminder for people everywhere to reclaim what’s rightfully theirs.<br />
2.	Go forth and seek your own territory.</p>
<p>If this two sentences fall on deaf ears, or on the “right” ears, than no harm done.  But if this two sentences fall on the “wrong” ears – That’s a tragedy!</p>
<p>Let us hope that the Arab people never quote you.  If they do, they too would say that dispersion is part of the divine plan so that human beings may fully realize their own unique potential in fulfilling G-d’s command to replenish the earth, and therefore, reclaim what is “rightfully theirs”.  I see a problem with that – Don’t you? </p>
<p>If humanity’s destiny is to be scattered all over the world, why do the people who want to destroy Israel insist on the one tiny land of Israel? </p>
<p>It’s one thing to engage in a philosophical debate and academic verbal exercise, and it’s another thing to create an unintended platform for the destruction of the Jewish state.  </p>
<p>I think you meant well, but I really hope that people who spin every fact to advance their political agenda would not take advantage of what you wrote and use it against Israel.</p>
<p>I heard somewhere that the blessing is in the plan.  Let us hope for better planning.</p>
<p>Sincerely,</p>
<p>Adina</p>
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		<title>By: JJ Gross</title>
		<link>http://danielgordis.org/2010/06/21/the-tower-of-babel-and-the-birth-of-nationhood/comment-page-1/#comment-2311</link>
		<dc:creator>JJ Gross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 19:08:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://danielgordis.org/?p=1647#comment-2311</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The emergence of the European Union can be seen as a latter day manifestation of the Tower of Babel &#8211;diverse nation states with long histories of mutual suspicion and periodic hostilities decides &#8211; against the laws of God and nature –  to united into single entity with a single purpose &#8212; namely to undo the world order by creating a single fiscal language (the Euro) with the impetus being to undermine the primacy of the United States.</p>
<p>Having set their post-modern vision into motion, the new EU proceeds to  direct its energies toward the undoing of Israel. More than any other item on its agenda, focusing on Israel and working toward its demise seems to be the consuming, certainly overarching, activity of this new Tower of Babel. </p>
<p>God, however, is not enamored of this new force of unity and proceeds to foment its undoing. Hence the precipitous disintegration of the Greek, Spanish and Portuguese economies, and the existential threat to the very Euro itself, which is happening now in real time. </p>
<p>Despite the massive, reflexive attempts currently underway to salvage this hatched in hubris monster, the handwriting is clearly on the wall, and Europe is poised to return to its natural, framgented, partisan, particularistic ways.</p>
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		<title>By: Kay Ohana</title>
		<link>http://danielgordis.org/2010/06/21/the-tower-of-babel-and-the-birth-of-nationhood/comment-page-1/#comment-2310</link>
		<dc:creator>Kay Ohana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://danielgordis.org/?p=1647#comment-2310</guid>
		<description>I am delighted with your rendition of the story, The Tower of Babel. I just knew there had to be a better explanation that most I have read regarding it as a story of &quot;pride&quot;. Thank you again Daniel Gordis!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am delighted with your rendition of the story, The Tower of Babel. I just knew there had to be a better explanation that most I have read regarding it as a story of &#8220;pride&#8221;. Thank you again Daniel Gordis!</p>
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		<title>By: Vic Rosenthal</title>
		<link>http://danielgordis.org/2010/06/21/the-tower-of-babel-and-the-birth-of-nationhood/comment-page-1/#comment-2308</link>
		<dc:creator>Vic Rosenthal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 17:24:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://danielgordis.org/?p=1647#comment-2308</guid>
		<description>A wonderful bit of exegesis! Unfortunately, those who dislike nationalism and peoplehood -- including liberal Jews -- tend to also deny that there&#039;s wisdom to be found in the Bible. I&#039;m reminded of John Lennon&#039;s &quot;Imagine&quot;:

Imagine there&#039;s no countries
It isn&#039;t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A wonderful bit of exegesis! Unfortunately, those who dislike nationalism and peoplehood &#8212; including liberal Jews &#8212; tend to also deny that there&#8217;s wisdom to be found in the Bible. I&#8217;m reminded of John Lennon&#8217;s &#8220;Imagine&#8221;:</p>
<p>Imagine there&#8217;s no countries<br />
It isn&#8217;t hard to do<br />
Nothing to kill or die for<br />
And no religion too</p>
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