<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: If This is Our Future</title>
	<atom:link href="http://danielgordis.org/2010/05/07/if-this-is-our-future/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://danielgordis.org/2010/05/07/if-this-is-our-future/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 20 May 2012 05:51:09 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Young Jews Are Fantastic! &#124; Monotonous.org</title>
		<link>http://danielgordis.org/2010/05/07/if-this-is-our-future/comment-page-2/#comment-9894</link>
		<dc:creator>Young Jews Are Fantastic! &#124; Monotonous.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jan 2012 19:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://danielgordis.org/?p=1589#comment-9894</guid>
		<description>[...] Gordis wrote this, and I couldn&#8217;t help but reply. Since I spent time writing it, maybe it&#8217;s worth a post [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Gordis wrote this, and I couldn&#8217;t help but reply. Since I spent time writing it, maybe it&#8217;s worth a post [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Levanah</title>
		<link>http://danielgordis.org/2010/05/07/if-this-is-our-future/comment-page-2/#comment-8788</link>
		<dc:creator>Levanah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2011 03:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://danielgordis.org/?p=1589#comment-8788</guid>
		<description>To Daniel Gordis:

I hope you are reading my comment, posted above, as well; perhaps it will help you expand to a more &quot;both/and&quot; - rather than such a solidly &quot;either/or&quot; - way of holding and processing the world.

Blessed be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Daniel Gordis:</p>
<p>I hope you are reading my comment, posted above, as well; perhaps it will help you expand to a more &#8220;both/and&#8221; &#8211; rather than such a solidly &#8220;either/or&#8221; &#8211; way of holding and processing the world.</p>
<p>Blessed be.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Levanah</title>
		<link>http://danielgordis.org/2010/05/07/if-this-is-our-future/comment-page-2/#comment-8787</link>
		<dc:creator>Levanah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2011 03:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://danielgordis.org/?p=1589#comment-8787</guid>
		<description>[NB: I am coming to this conversation more than a year after the fact, through a recent link to the original post.]  
    Reading the entire thread, I am struck above all by two overriding observations: 
 (1) the students who write seem, with only one (unfortunately- and youthfully-hyperbolic) exception, far more balanced and insightful than the great majority of the (apparently older) non-student responders; &amp; 
 (2) the meta-issue of divisiveness is completely drowned out by a demonstration of the accuracy of that very concern, as manifest by an argument about Israel &amp; Israeli policy (usually without any distinction) and even the true &quot;Jewish-ness&quot; of those who hold a differing (&amp;, generally, a less-polarized) position. 
   
    To Eitan Isaacson:  thank you for representing those of us in &quot;the older generation&quot; who celebrate the ability of our offspring to grow, to see clearly, and to challenge full-heartedly.
   
    To Alissa from Brandeis:  &quot;The main thing that this article fails to do is distinguish between the current Israeli government and Israel&quot; - Thank you for the clarity of your words; many on both the Right/Middle and the Left are difficult to speak with for the same reason.
   
    To Rochelle W. and Erika N.:
&quot;Students may talk politics 24/7 but on the day of their graduation all they are looking for is fun,happiness and lunch. They want an event thatâ€™s memorable in a non-challenging way.&quot; &amp; &quot;The day is too important for the class to be divided politically along either line; regardless of beliefs about the conflict, our graduation should be about us, celebrating together as an entire class.&quot;  
    You both - representing two generations - have articulated the central issue:  it is a day than calls for uniting the entire graduating class and its families.  Look how the rest of the conversation here has gone directly for the opposite:  disagreement, division, and conflict...unable even to *acknowledge* an issue that transcends which &quot;side&quot; anyone holds.  I dearly hope that the actual graduation day was kinder, gentler, and more celebratory and inclusive than this column and thread! 
    Blessed be all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[NB: I am coming to this conversation more than a year after the fact, through a recent link to the original post.]<br />
    Reading the entire thread, I am struck above all by two overriding observations:<br />
 (1) the students who write seem, with only one (unfortunately- and youthfully-hyperbolic) exception, far more balanced and insightful than the great majority of the (apparently older) non-student responders; &amp;<br />
 (2) the meta-issue of divisiveness is completely drowned out by a demonstration of the accuracy of that very concern, as manifest by an argument about Israel &amp; Israeli policy (usually without any distinction) and even the true &#8220;Jewish-ness&#8221; of those who hold a differing (&amp;, generally, a less-polarized) position. </p>
<p>    To Eitan Isaacson:  thank you for representing those of us in &#8220;the older generation&#8221; who celebrate the ability of our offspring to grow, to see clearly, and to challenge full-heartedly.</p>
<p>    To Alissa from Brandeis:  &#8220;The main thing that this article fails to do is distinguish between the current Israeli government and Israel&#8221; &#8211; Thank you for the clarity of your words; many on both the Right/Middle and the Left are difficult to speak with for the same reason.</p>
<p>    To Rochelle W. and Erika N.:<br />
&#8220;Students may talk politics 24/7 but on the day of their graduation all they are looking for is fun,happiness and lunch. They want an event thatâ€™s memorable in a non-challenging way.&#8221; &amp; &#8220;The day is too important for the class to be divided politically along either line; regardless of beliefs about the conflict, our graduation should be about us, celebrating together as an entire class.&#8221;<br />
    You both &#8211; representing two generations &#8211; have articulated the central issue:  it is a day than calls for uniting the entire graduating class and its families.  Look how the rest of the conversation here has gone directly for the opposite:  disagreement, division, and conflict&#8230;unable even to *acknowledge* an issue that transcends which &#8220;side&#8221; anyone holds.  I dearly hope that the actual graduation day was kinder, gentler, and more celebratory and inclusive than this column and thread!<br />
    Blessed be all.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jews &#38; The College Imaginary: A Reappraisal &#171; www.RabbiJosh.com</title>
		<link>http://danielgordis.org/2010/05/07/if-this-is-our-future/comment-page-2/#comment-1601</link>
		<dc:creator>Jews &#38; The College Imaginary: A Reappraisal &#171; www.RabbiJosh.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 19:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://danielgordis.org/?p=1589#comment-1601</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in many of the issues and debates of American Jewish life today. When Danny Gordis wrote his recent piece about the response to Israeli Ambassador Daniel Oren’s commencement address at Brandeis, my [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ben Dor A.</title>
		<link>http://danielgordis.org/2010/05/07/if-this-is-our-future/comment-page-2/#comment-1581</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Dor A.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 12:36:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://danielgordis.org/?p=1589#comment-1581</guid>
		<description>Eitan Isaacson wrote:

&quot;And then we go to Hebrew school, where first we are lied to (&quot;a people without a land, for a land without a people&quot;)&quot;

Please refer to Mark Twain: Journey to the Holy Land or
Henry Baker Tristram&#039;s visit to the Holy Land at the beginning of the 19th Century or
P.E.F. map of Western Palestine Sheet No. VI or
Robinson Smith, Vol. II p. 174 or
P.E.F.Q. 1873 p.150 or
Royal Commission Report, p. 259 or
The Dutch explorer Van De Velde p. 157

and many more who all describe how desolated, deserted and devastated the Holy Land was during the Ottoman rule.

There were less than 250,000 people in this barren land most of them nomadic Bedouin tribes.

There was no dispossession. In fact most Arab immigration to the Holy Land started with the immigration of Jews in the late 19th Century.

Do you know how many Arabs in Israel participated in terror and support of terror groups since 1948?
Do you know how many Arabs in Israel spied for terrorist groups and the Arab states around us?

&quot;where a secret police reigns supreme&quot;

Where do you get this kind of hogwash? Do you know how many police officers are tried and charged every year for criminal felonies? Even our former Prime Minister and former President are standing trial not to mention former members of Knesset.
Very few people here escape justice. I haven&#039;t seen this kind of treatment in the States.

&quot;where one set of laws does not apply to half of it&#039;s population&quot;

NO ONE HERE IS ABOVE THE LAW</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eitan Isaacson wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;And then we go to Hebrew school, where first we are lied to (&#8220;a people without a land, for a land without a people&#8221;)&#8221;</p>
<p>Please refer to Mark Twain: Journey to the Holy Land or<br />
Henry Baker Tristram&#8217;s visit to the Holy Land at the beginning of the 19th Century or<br />
P.E.F. map of Western Palestine Sheet No. VI or<br />
Robinson Smith, Vol. II p. 174 or<br />
P.E.F.Q. 1873 p.150 or<br />
Royal Commission Report, p. 259 or<br />
The Dutch explorer Van De Velde p. 157</p>
<p>and many more who all describe how desolated, deserted and devastated the Holy Land was during the Ottoman rule.</p>
<p>There were less than 250,000 people in this barren land most of them nomadic Bedouin tribes.</p>
<p>There was no dispossession. In fact most Arab immigration to the Holy Land started with the immigration of Jews in the late 19th Century.</p>
<p>Do you know how many Arabs in Israel participated in terror and support of terror groups since 1948?<br />
Do you know how many Arabs in Israel spied for terrorist groups and the Arab states around us?</p>
<p>&#8220;where a secret police reigns supreme&#8221;</p>
<p>Where do you get this kind of hogwash? Do you know how many police officers are tried and charged every year for criminal felonies? Even our former Prime Minister and former President are standing trial not to mention former members of Knesset.<br />
Very few people here escape justice. I haven&#8217;t seen this kind of treatment in the States.</p>
<p>&#8220;where one set of laws does not apply to half of it&#8217;s population&#8221;</p>
<p>NO ONE HERE IS ABOVE THE LAW</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ben Dor A.</title>
		<link>http://danielgordis.org/2010/05/07/if-this-is-our-future/comment-page-2/#comment-1578</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Dor A.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 12:05:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://danielgordis.org/?p=1589#comment-1578</guid>
		<description>Rebecca wrote:

&quot;Indeed it&#039;s a sad day when Israel&#039;s history of human rights violations, it&#039;s refusal to meaningfully participate in a peace process&quot;

I wonder where you get your information from? What human rights violations are you talking about? UN? HRW? AI? Adallah?

Peace process? What have Israel been doing since its inception if not looked for a meaningful peace with its neighbors?
Who exactly initiated so many wars against the state of Israel?
Who is fueling 120 years of terror against innocent civilians? a
Where do you get your information from?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rebecca wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;Indeed it&#8217;s a sad day when Israel&#8217;s history of human rights violations, it&#8217;s refusal to meaningfully participate in a peace process&#8221;</p>
<p>I wonder where you get your information from? What human rights violations are you talking about? UN? HRW? AI? Adallah?</p>
<p>Peace process? What have Israel been doing since its inception if not looked for a meaningful peace with its neighbors?<br />
Who exactly initiated so many wars against the state of Israel?<br />
Who is fueling 120 years of terror against innocent civilians? a<br />
Where do you get your information from?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ben Dor A.</title>
		<link>http://danielgordis.org/2010/05/07/if-this-is-our-future/comment-page-2/#comment-1576</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Dor A.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 11:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://danielgordis.org/?p=1589#comment-1576</guid>
		<description>Alissa from Brandeis wrote:

&quot;These students oppose the university&#039;s choice of keynote speaker because they support Israel, they want it to succeed, and they believe that the Israeli government&#039;s policy is a step in the wrong direction.&quot;

Can you please elaborate what you mean by &quot;  the Israeli government&#039;s policy is a step in the wrong direction.&quot;?

&quot;It&#039;s that we, along with most of the rest of the world, don&#039;t know how Israel can peacefully co-exist with Palestine. Furthermore, not all, but many Jewish students at Brandeis disagree with the way that the Israeli government is dealing with the conflict.&quot;

Can you show us the right direction? 
Can you point us the light?
What do you think should be the right direction?
What is the Israeli Government doing wrong in dealing with the conflict?
What do you think the direction should be?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alissa from Brandeis wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;These students oppose the university&#8217;s choice of keynote speaker because they support Israel, they want it to succeed, and they believe that the Israeli government&#8217;s policy is a step in the wrong direction.&#8221;</p>
<p>Can you please elaborate what you mean by &#8221;  the Israeli government&#8217;s policy is a step in the wrong direction.&#8221;?</p>
<p>&#8220;It&#8217;s that we, along with most of the rest of the world, don&#8217;t know how Israel can peacefully co-exist with Palestine. Furthermore, not all, but many Jewish students at Brandeis disagree with the way that the Israeli government is dealing with the conflict.&#8221;</p>
<p>Can you show us the right direction?<br />
Can you point us the light?<br />
What do you think should be the right direction?<br />
What is the Israeli Government doing wrong in dealing with the conflict?<br />
What do you think the direction should be?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Jewish Intellectual Predicament &#124; FrontPage Magazine</title>
		<link>http://danielgordis.org/2010/05/07/if-this-is-our-future/comment-page-2/#comment-1555</link>
		<dc:creator>The Jewish Intellectual Predicament &#124; FrontPage Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 04:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://danielgordis.org/?p=1589#comment-1555</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the Zionist future. Similarly, as Daniel Gordis, president of the Jerusalem Shalem Center, says of Brandeis University’s Jewish students who objected to Israel’s ambassador Michael Oren [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alissa from Brandeis</title>
		<link>http://danielgordis.org/2010/05/07/if-this-is-our-future/comment-page-2/#comment-1552</link>
		<dc:creator>Alissa from Brandeis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 May 2010 15:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://danielgordis.org/?p=1589#comment-1552</guid>
		<description>I am a Jewish student at Brandeis and I find some of the accusations made in this article unfounded and troubling. From my own personal experience at Brandeis, the students&#039; knowledge of Jewish history and persecution in Jewish history (even before the existence of the Israeli nation-state), of the history and development of Israel as well as its religious importance, and of current Israeli social and political issues is greater than I have seen anywhere else. I do not know every student at my university, but in opinion when referring the Brandeis Jewish community at large I would never agree with the statement &quot;For many young American Jews, the only association they have with Israel is the conflict with the Palestinians.&quot; 

The main thing that this article fails to do is distinguish between the current Israeli government and Israel, the land of our ancestors and the nation that could once and for all free us from the violence of religious persecution. I think it is outrageous to say that the controversy among Brandeis students regarding Ambassador Oren as keynote speaker is a manifestation of a lack of support for Israel, especially based on ignorance of Israeli issues beyond the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I would like to address the paragraph:

&quot;No longer is Israel the country that managed to forge a future for the Jewish people when it was left in tatters after the Holocaust. Israel is not, in their minds, the country that gave refuge to hundreds of thousands of Jews expelled from North Africa when they had nowhere else to go, granting them all citizenship, in a policy dramatically different from the cynical decisions of Lebanon, Syria and Jordan to turn their Palestinian refugees into pawns in what they (correctly) assumed would be a lengthy battle with Israel.&quot;

First of all, Brandeis has one of the most respected Near Eastern and Judaic Studies programs in the country (not to mention our Peace, Conflict, and Co-Existence Studies Major.) We are aware. Secondly, a large portion of Jewish Brandeis students are of Ashkenazi heritage and have relatives that came to the US after fleeing prejudice and pogroms in Eastern Europe and/or have relatives that survived or were killed in the Holocaust. Not to mention Jewish students of Sephardic heritage from Syria, from North Africa. We are aware. At Brandeis, Israel is the most popular country in which to study abroad and so many students choose to go on Birthright every year. We are aware. And have you seen the amount of Zionist activism on campus? I also can not count the number of times that I&#039;ve walked into a new friend&#039;s dorm room to be confronted with a large Israeli flag covering a portion of one wall. We are an extremely aware student body when it comes to Israel.

We are also a student body that is generally very politically active on most fronts. It&#039;s not that Jewish Brandeis students (from my experience) do not support Israel in an ideal world. It&#039;s that we, along with most of the rest of the world, don&#039;t know how Israel can peacefully co-exist with Palestine. Furthermore, not all, but many Jewish students at Brandeis disagree with the way that the Israeli government is dealing with the conflict. These students oppose the university&#039;s choice of keynote speaker because they support Israel, they want it to succeed, and they believe that the Israeli government&#039;s policy is a step in the wrong direction. They oppose the university&#039;s choice of keynote speaker because they care. To these students, Ambassador Oren represents the Israeli government, not Israel as a whole. This is a distinction that needs to be made and should be considered by the author of this article, Mr. Gordis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a Jewish student at Brandeis and I find some of the accusations made in this article unfounded and troubling. From my own personal experience at Brandeis, the students&#8217; knowledge of Jewish history and persecution in Jewish history (even before the existence of the Israeli nation-state), of the history and development of Israel as well as its religious importance, and of current Israeli social and political issues is greater than I have seen anywhere else. I do not know every student at my university, but in opinion when referring the Brandeis Jewish community at large I would never agree with the statement &#8220;For many young American Jews, the only association they have with Israel is the conflict with the Palestinians.&#8221; </p>
<p>The main thing that this article fails to do is distinguish between the current Israeli government and Israel, the land of our ancestors and the nation that could once and for all free us from the violence of religious persecution. I think it is outrageous to say that the controversy among Brandeis students regarding Ambassador Oren as keynote speaker is a manifestation of a lack of support for Israel, especially based on ignorance of Israeli issues beyond the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I would like to address the paragraph:</p>
<p>&#8220;No longer is Israel the country that managed to forge a future for the Jewish people when it was left in tatters after the Holocaust. Israel is not, in their minds, the country that gave refuge to hundreds of thousands of Jews expelled from North Africa when they had nowhere else to go, granting them all citizenship, in a policy dramatically different from the cynical decisions of Lebanon, Syria and Jordan to turn their Palestinian refugees into pawns in what they (correctly) assumed would be a lengthy battle with Israel.&#8221;</p>
<p>First of all, Brandeis has one of the most respected Near Eastern and Judaic Studies programs in the country (not to mention our Peace, Conflict, and Co-Existence Studies Major.) We are aware. Secondly, a large portion of Jewish Brandeis students are of Ashkenazi heritage and have relatives that came to the US after fleeing prejudice and pogroms in Eastern Europe and/or have relatives that survived or were killed in the Holocaust. Not to mention Jewish students of Sephardic heritage from Syria, from North Africa. We are aware. At Brandeis, Israel is the most popular country in which to study abroad and so many students choose to go on Birthright every year. We are aware. And have you seen the amount of Zionist activism on campus? I also can not count the number of times that I&#8217;ve walked into a new friend&#8217;s dorm room to be confronted with a large Israeli flag covering a portion of one wall. We are an extremely aware student body when it comes to Israel.</p>
<p>We are also a student body that is generally very politically active on most fronts. It&#8217;s not that Jewish Brandeis students (from my experience) do not support Israel in an ideal world. It&#8217;s that we, along with most of the rest of the world, don&#8217;t know how Israel can peacefully co-exist with Palestine. Furthermore, not all, but many Jewish students at Brandeis disagree with the way that the Israeli government is dealing with the conflict. These students oppose the university&#8217;s choice of keynote speaker because they support Israel, they want it to succeed, and they believe that the Israeli government&#8217;s policy is a step in the wrong direction. They oppose the university&#8217;s choice of keynote speaker because they care. To these students, Ambassador Oren represents the Israeli government, not Israel as a whole. This is a distinction that needs to be made and should be considered by the author of this article, Mr. Gordis.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: MM</title>
		<link>http://danielgordis.org/2010/05/07/if-this-is-our-future/comment-page-2/#comment-1540</link>
		<dc:creator>MM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 May 2010 10:56:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://danielgordis.org/?p=1589#comment-1540</guid>
		<description>&quot;Stella&quot; also had this to say on a Brandeis U student website: &quot;In order to stick it to the ziocons, we should invite Faisal Shahzad to speak. His values are much closer to those of Brandeis than the murderer Michael Oren.&quot; I assume it&#039;s deliberate that she has chosen the pseudonym of a notorious Nazi &quot;catcher&quot; (cf. Peter Wyden&#039;s Stella)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Stella&#8221; also had this to say on a Brandeis U student website: &#8220;In order to stick it to the ziocons, we should invite Faisal Shahzad to speak. His values are much closer to those of Brandeis than the murderer Michael Oren.&#8221; I assume it&#8217;s deliberate that she has chosen the pseudonym of a notorious Nazi &#8220;catcher&#8221; (cf. Peter Wyden&#8217;s Stella)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

