Comments on: The War We Haven’t Fought Yet

By: Lisa Brooks

Lisa Brooks — Sun, 27 Mar 2011 21:23:03 +0000

I am incredibly distressed concerning the upcoming election. With everything that is occuring in Iraq, Afghanistan, and the Middle East (not to mention the U.S. economy) we badly must have a good leader. I’m not at all convinced that Mr. Obama or any of the Republican contenders so far have the experience or skills it takes to get the job done the way it has to be accomplished. Being president of the U.S. is an hugely challenging job. Is there someone out there with the experience, skill, and moral conviction to do the job?

By: Billie Kozolchyk

Billie Kozolchyk — Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:01:45 +0000

And hear hear for Avraham Sonenthal! Ditto to all of the above except that I have yet to see the good Haredim telling the bad Haredim that breaking the law is a no-no and most assuredly not the way a good Jew behaves. Please do fight those cro-Magnon types. I wonder if they learned how to conduct themselves on their modesty patrols from their fellow humanitarians in Iran.

By: Robin Capsouto

Robin Capsouto — Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:25:31 +0000

Having just recently finished reading Doris Kearns Goodwin’s excellent book, “Team of Rivals”, which is all about Lincoln’s presidency and his cabinet, and his incredible wisdom in the way he sought to compromise between the Northern abolitionists and the Southern secessionists, I can thoroughly understand Daniel Gordis’s comparisons between Israel 2009 and the United States circa 1850. The whole time I read the book I was pondering the parallels, although my mind tended more to the conflict between the advocates of “Greater Israel”(as the Slave States) and those advocating ending the occupation.(radical abolitionists) Of, course, I also was aware of the differences in our situations (eg the comments above by P.S.)
But the tendency to violence between opposing ideologies was so similar.
Surprisingly, I wept like a baby when Lincoln was killed, even though I knew the end of the story. There is no doubt that if this unusual leader had lived to complete a second term that the reconstruction of the Union and the resulting relations between the North and South would have been very different from what they were. But I don’t think that I was weeping for them; I was weeping for us. Because we don’t have a leader on the horizon who is even 1/3rd of an Abraham Lincoln.

By: Avraham Sonenthal

Avraham Sonenthal — Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:55:12 +0000

Hear hear! The point I think is not that we should/should not be against the Haredim. I think that there are probably very good Haredim out there. It is that the very same laws and societal standards that hold for others should hold for them. If they break the law, they should be punished as anyone else. If they have gangs of thugs (modesty patrols) attacking people, those gangs should be broken up by the police. If a public road runs through their area, they should not be allowed to control it like a gang. Now it is at the point where they think themselves a separate nation. And I agree, we have to fight that with all means at our disposal.

By: Stephen gurevitch

Stephen gurevitch — Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:24:05 +0000

Churchill once declared “Democracy is a terrible system but unfortunately it’s the best we have.” The argument for Isreal’s exsistence is that it should be as a Jewish state. The problem becomes complicated by trying to define who is a Jew. The religous right seem to have mandated that they have the right to decide that and the secular and less religous have allowed them that power to the extent where some Jews have been disenfranshised of the right to call themselves Jews.
We live on planet Earth-where man seems the predominant spieces and while we should look to religion for a moral guide (there is nothing in the Torah or even in the New Testament against slavery so we would be wrong to let the religous ones be our “soul” moral compass.
In order for Israel to survive we have to stop allowing the Religous parties be the tail wagging the dog.
While I have no conviction Bibi is the leader to bring about peace. I certainly didn’t think Begin would either so it perhaps is best not to presume and do our personal best and move others to do likewise.

By: P.S.

P.S. — Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:19:30 +0000

I’ve read more from your books and journal pieces than from your newspaper articles, so this was actually the first I’d read.

It IS an enlightening comparison, but the sources of division vary signicantly. The US didn’t have a significant, vocal comparably-unified and viral portion of it’s population pledged to its destruction (the indigenous populations of the US is a very different story than from the Arabs in the region – despite comparisons by Palestinians and a few First Nations spokespeople), a portion of the population committed to the “founding documents” of the nation, but pledged to indifference towards the State (which it feeds off of), did not have neighbors duty bound to see it pushed into the sea (what? – Canada?…), and was not comprised vastly of Jews! – pushed or pulled to Aretzeinu by force of fate or soul – and likewise did not have an ancient religion and culture to see as either binding agent or fertilizer, fossil or ferment…Bracha Ben Avraham makes a good point about Yesha “vs.” the State – one that reveals also the geographical and economic issues that were also significant factors behind the War Between the States.

I also think recent scholarship on Lincoln as a “big government Republican” makes suspect the desirability of ending such a war on such terms ever again. I think this is also evidenced by the New Deal era of Executive monopoly and the most recent Big Government Republican administration in the U.S.(both based in part on the kind of legislative War Powers pilpul activism that Lincoln innovated).

By: Billie Kozolchyk

Billie Kozolchyk — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 04:06:12 +0000

Dr. Gordis, Your erudition continues to amaze me, your sensitivity always moves me, occasionally to tears, and your conclusions often depressing. However, I am of the Israel is a democracy school and constantly advocate for Israel (letters to the editor, guest opinons, etc.) with that as my mantra. And there is no question that when our friends in Congress talk about the relationship between Israel and the U.S., it is about our shared values.

By: Louis Lipsky

Louis Lipsky — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 05:50:35 +0000

Dear Mr. Ben Avraham,
Thank you for the clarification, your position is clear even though not elaborated. I, of course, personally believe that history will find my comparison less jarring. But let us not trouble Dr. Gordis’ readers with our discussions. If you wish I will be pleased to hear from you at louis@lipsky.org.
Ketivah vaChatimah tova,
Louis

By: Meir ben Avraham

Meir ben Avraham — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 04:42:22 +0000

Dear Mr. Lipsky,

I take your point about the tone of my post. So more seriously: unlike Lincoln in 1860, Netanyahu is not an unknown quantity. We’ve seen him in the post before; and to be frank, in my view he did not demonstrate the kind of character–menschlikheit, let us say–that marks the truly great leaders. Now, you have laid out a set of evidence supporting the view that Netanyahu may be the right leader for this particular crisis, and you may be right. Moreover, Bibi may have grown and matured in the last decade. I can imagine, then, Netanyahu having accomplishments analogous to Lincoln’s. But I can’t consider Netanyahu as *like* Lincoln–I find the comparison jarring.

By: Louis Lipsky

Louis Lipsky — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:05:55 +0000

Dear Meir ben Avraham,
People said that about Lincoln in 1860, also. He got less than half the popular vote and might not have been eelcted if there weren’t 4 candidates. We might be in worse trouble than you imagine, and some might agree with you if you’d care to try to substantiate your view. Tossing out one-liners is really disregarding the detailed thought that Gordis regularly employs in his writing and that most of his responders present in kind.
Louis