But doing these things is surely a matter of self-interest: ie to save israeli democracy and allow our country to hold onto its values.

The difficulty of achieving peace shouldnt stop us from taking steps to avoid letting the west bank slip into a state of apartheid (something which there is a real danger of) The continuation of the status quo will only result in the majority population (palestinians) becoming subjugated to the minority population (settlers).
We cant just wait for the palestinians to act for this will be too late.

It’s a basic human right that one can travel and stay in any land, “holly land”, “european land” wherever one wishes to go.
As for staying and taking over someone’s land by means of war or illegally, that’s a different matter. An illegal immigrant is to be deported. That’s the law of any land, Israelis are no exceptions. So let’s not confuse basic human rights with legal rights. There is no “double standard”.

Honestly, i don’t trust Israeli courts. There is an obvious bias and discrimination against Palestinians and lack of justice.

My beliefs as Christian are that Jesus teaches peace, love and goodness. It is my interpretation and my understanding of Jesus, that he never meant for anyone to actually pick up a sword and murder his enemies for any cause. That is simply not Jesus that I believe in. His words are at most symbolic for a spiritual warfare we are to fight on a personal level whatever it is on our way to inner peace.

Jesus says, thy shall not murder. Under no conditions, no exceptions.

But that’s my take on it. That’s my religion.

I agree with you that religious writings should not ever be quoted during a political argument and should never be part of politics, it’s messy enough without it. But it’s not what this blog post is. Rabbi suggested it for a sake of an exercise, an experiment that this post was about. And I believe that it’s a powerful argument for peace.

Do you want peace? Mr. Gordis pessimistic and hopeless take on this issue offers no solution. Do you have one?

First, would you be more comfortable, being a Christian, if I quoted Jesus’ words from the New Testament?

Matthew 10:34 – “I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword” or Luke 22:36 – “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.”

But the real point was that I was pointing out to the Rabbi that one cannot quote Scripture one-sidedly and expect to discourse on modern political events based on that biased perspective. The Bible, either as a religious tract or a moral guidebook, should be taken as a whole. And, if in the Bible some Prophets desire a strong Israel, to quote a defeatists sentence and ignore others is not being a good Rabbi nor an excellent political activist, if one plays a guitar or not.

It’s not a fair or ethical way of discussing the right sof Jews in their land. I am not asserting a final conclusion but simply pointing out a bit of selective quotating which I personally have bno sympathy for in an argument.

Either the Rabbi was being unfair in hiding the verse in Yoel or he didn’t know of the other verse. Which is worse, you decide.

Is that what they teach you in your rabbinical seminary?

Hebrew Union College-Jewish Institute of Religion, 1989 and University of North Carolina at Greensboro, 1978.

Let’s try Yoel,4,10 – “Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruning-hooks into spears; let the weak say: ‘I am strong.’”

Oops. That’s a bit neo-con. God works in mysterious ways.

And as for this: “What about the settlers’ who continue to attack innocent Palestinian farmers? Or the ongoing home demolitions? Check out the work of Rabbis for Human Rights!!!”

Well, what about them? It would seem that for you, Rabbi, all the wicked evil deeds of Arab (note: not “the” Arabs like in “the” Settlers) pogromists (1920, 1929, 1936-39), the fedayeen, the Fatah, the Hamas, the Islamic Jihad do not spoil, cancel or injure any of the “rights” those RHR clergymen promote for them but a few Jewish revenants all who are either denounced by their fellows or arrested by the authorities somehow convince you we Jews do not belong in Shiloh, Hebron or Elon Moreh? Or that their violence is worse that Arab violence? Arabs can blow up restaurants, buses, etc. but Jewish rights are canceled due to the demolition of houses with court approval?

What rabbinical seminary did you graduate? What philosophy course did you take?

Danny – you could do better!

What about the settlers’ who continue to attack innocent Palestinian farmers? Or the ongoing home demolitions? Check out the work of Rabbis for Human Rights!!!

Both peoples must take responsibility and stop blaming the other and stop thinking backward.

President Obama has it correct and its time for neo-cons, and the right to get it!

Try another thought experiment: “nation shall not lift up sword against nation, and study war no more.”